Friday 28 February 2014

MORE Opinions Required

Ok people, I require your help AGAIN! Thanks for all the comments in Opinions Required. Same question, except this time I have changed 1 number and added one word.

I did a job a few weeks back that I want to write about. First though, I want some different opinions from you lot! 

"94 year old male, chest pain, suicidal, verbally aggressive, police requested"

That was the information that I had. I chose not to wait for police because he was 94! I was feeling particularly bolshy on this particular day!

The patients brother met us outside the flat and gave us a run down on his past medical history. The highlights included, paranoid schizophrenia, delusions, hallucinations, psychotic outbursts and OCD. Today he is extremely agitated. We entered the property and cancelled the police. 

I swung open the bedroom door. The patient was standing in the middle of the room holding a zimmer-frame. He stared at me. He slowly starts walking  towards me.

"Get out of my fucking flat or I'll throw you out of the fucking window, I mean it. Fuck off."

He says this whilst raising his fists.

*          *          *          *          *

So! What I want to know is, what would you do? What should I have done? What are your thoughts on the situation I find myself in? I welcome the views of everyone! Ambulance staff, police, mental health working, nurses or anyone who wants to share what they'd do! Please comment!! 

Thanks, Ella x


  1. I've seen many a pensioner give a great right hook......Age is no barrier to aggression. Although your threat level has lowered somewhat, from the previous scenario, you are still 'in danger'. Adv Para Ex Army (still doesn't like being hit/stabbed/killed by patients of whatever age)

  2. My opinion is no different

    Paramedic with former police career.

  3. Seeing as I've been playfully hit by intoxicated pensioners (and less playfully, properly swung at by one 80yo woman) I'd go with the proviso in my first reply - enter but on guard.

  4. Interesting but doesn't change anything, still would back out.

  5. shoot first. ask questions later . . . . too much?

  6. Paramedic:
    I've been chased by a 90year old before who decided she would not allow me to "abduct" her. I am pleased her aim was bad, because if anything had hit it would have hurt. (And for being a sprightly thing able to leap over a small fence, she had to go round).
    Whereas conversely I have been to an aggressive 90year old who was threatening to injure us all, a police officer present, waving things around and telling us to leave his (ex) home. The paramedic and the police officer (both big and burly) could not get him to calm down. Whilst they were still trying to get him to let them in, I called out "We are leaving now" and was walking hand in hand out the front door with the patient. He didn't like them one bit, but he took a shine to me.

    I would also have gone in. But I don't think I would have cancelled the police until I had at least eyeballed the patient.

  7. I wouldn't be in such a rush to get out, honestly I would probably stay in his flat trying to calm him whilst waiting for the police

  8. Same reply as before try calming at safe distance if not possible wait for back up .
    Pensioners still can cause injuries and be aggresive but you have to make the deision at the time base don the information you have and the things you see and how you feel the same as we do
    police officer

  9. Age is no barrier to causing hurt. At 94 he could have military skills and ability. He has at least one weapon to hand. Safe distance and start talking..
    serving police officer. 12 years experience plus.

  10. From a Police perspective, can't leave as have been told he's suicidal.
    Can't s136 as in his own home. Have to talk him down or contact appropriate Mental Health Professional for advice on a warrant.
    In a nutshell, my opinion is stay, stay calmly and don't cancel the police. Even if you ask them to wait by the front door.

  11. Same reply as before, but with even more emphasis placed on the fact the police would obviously happily support and protect attending clinicians but the gentleman is a patient. A patient who should have the treatment of a community mental health crisis team.

  12. I would have approached with caution, not cancelled police until I had seen, interacted and reassessed. If he had told me to leave I would make moves to, explain and reason and offer him the choice to be treated rather than remain and possibly aggravate... (social worker)

  13. His age is irrelevant, the issue is 'Does he have capacity' if yes then he has the right not to be treated and the right to tell you to leave however uncomfortable that makes you feel and even if you think he might harm himself. If he does not have capacity then you have to make the decision as to how safe you are and whether you back off and ask for police back up, only you at the scene can make that call.

  14. Jon - Police Officer28 February 2014 at 21:56

    Incredibly difficult situation.

    Thing is, as others have said, a 94 year old can potentially do you as much harm as a 24 year old, in the same way as a 24 year old mught have mental health conditions and not mean it as much as a frail old lady with dementia.

    It's very much a personal thing. Is there a right or wrong answer? Look after number one and don't be a hero.

  15. Still wouldn't underestimate him. A zimmer frame would hurt, whether it be swung by a 19 year old, or a 94 year old.

  16. ive seen a 90 year old dementia patient throw a full size grandfather clock down a flight of stairs close up (i was on the stairs) age isnt always safe. be safe yourself first if at all possible

  17. I might move a little slower and get a few more words out, but he can still hurt me and he still really doesn't want me there. If I've really just upset him that much by barging in where I wasn't wanted, then maybe I need to back the heck off, regroup and use some more respect when I try again to talk to him.

  18. sectioned uk has gone a bit quiet all of a sudden I thought he had all the answers?

  19. Waiting to hear the writeup now you've got your opinions.......

  20. ditto.. what did you do?


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